UW-Madison Cartoon Controversy Forum - Live Blog Account
Here's what I would've live-blogged tonight from the Cartoon Forum but for the lack of wireless in Bascom Hall.
It is one massive post, and I've left it raw and unedited, except for a few pictures I've sprinkled in as appropriate and a few hyperlinks peppered here and there.
Only areas in quotes are verbatim from my seat in the hall. Spelling errors have not been amended!
Enjoy.
___________________________________________________________
7:00 – Chancellor Wiley and Laurie Berquam are standing below the stage surveying the crowd.
Mac from the Badger Herald is in the center of the table on stage, flanked by Adam Schmidt of the Daily Cardinal and the rep. from the Muslim Student Association.
There are lots of empty seats here in 272 Bascom.
There are 9 panelists up front.
Jeff Healy of The Mendota Beacon is here to cover the story.
I'm sitting with Opiate, J.E., and the Herald contingent.
(It’s sort of like church – there’s nobody sitting up front.)
Panelists are laughing, chit-chatting.
7:03 Wiley starts things off. He notes that more people will be coming in during the forum – don’t get excited, basically, there will probably be protesters
“one of the central issues in any democracy”
“one of our most important freedoms – freedom of speech and freedom of press”
“I can promise you this – you’ll take away from this evening memories and experiences you can’t get in an ordinary classroom (this is what a university is all about –real issues that are on us in the moment”
7:05 – Berquam takes the mic
The purpose is in response to the controversy
“portraying the prophet mohammed as a terrorist figure” – set context already
“respectful, intelligent dialogue”
“there exists a wide range of opinions on this topic”
“a contribution to the fearless sifting and winnowing”
Mac, Michael Thomas, White House Correspondent for the National Journal… Suri Kempe – Multicultural Student Coalition (I thought the rep was supposed to be Babar from the MSA?) OVAMIR is actually the rep. for the Muslim Students Association.. There are more I can't get right away...
7:10 Opening Statements
Kemal Karpat – a muslim, but not speaking as a muslim – professor emeritus who taught here for 36 years
There are certain sublime global rights and freedoms – freedom of speech, freedom of thought. There use in a responsible manner is to be applauded. Their abuse should be criticized – such freedoms can be abused when people have the means to use them to express their own personal preferences. Here is the danger of freedom – when it is in the hands of people who are not sufficiently informed of the world they are living in…when ideas are traveling from one end of the world to the other. Those ideas are affecting the Muslim world…
(Goes off on an anti-colonial rant.)
But Europe is not prepared to share with them the freedoms, the equality they’ve been preaching. Some of the demonstrations in Europe are demonstartaions against inequality that has been perpetrated.
Before publishing something, before saying someihtng, I believe one should look inot the background of those events w/o preaching high ideals that are not being respected by the people preaching.
“a condemnation of that [Muslim] world wihtou understanding that world, without finding ways to…"
(clapping violently)
They should be free to write what they want, but also free to accept the repercussions
Teju Olaniyan- political cartoons expert
A much larger philosophical issue…"the fundamental fact that there will never be a comfortable meeting place between religion and free speech"…we just have to understand the fact that there will never be a comfortable meeting between religion and free speech.
Second point… “the arguments are eloquently made…given the eloquent argument…I thought there would be…what we should be struggling for is not our sacred rights, but the sacred images…”
Each time I here that the cartoons are offensive – they are very offensive to me – the cartoons are very, very offensive – of course, they are cartoons, what do you expect?
“The cartoons are incredibly successful – more successful than the artists ever would have liked.”
“Cartoons are supposed to be offensive and we just have to accept it that way.”
Suri Kempe – MCSC
Multicultural Student Coalition
When one says the issue is about protecting free speech – the right to protect what one believes in – what is the point of publishing something you don’t believe in?
What is the cartoon saying? It is saying the religion he preaches is a religion of terror.
By repritng this picture – the Badger Herald as an institution is saying that “it says all Muslims are terrorists…”
Given the hurt as well as the grievance – could this objective have been achieved in some other way?
“An increasingly Islamophobic environment”
Newspapers in particular play an important role – the picture which the Badger Herald published “possibly putting in danger people in the community”
(Clapping)
A Muslim student looking for signatures…was spit on,
Printing this image is harassment of Muslims on and off this campus…
"How can you ensure the safety of every Muslim in our community that you put at risk?"
Mac VerStandig - The Badger Herald
This is what I believe in…a room full of people
I believe a newspaper, when psosibl, should give people the information necessary to make decisions.
"We have a duty to our readers to provide them with all the facts."
“I believe in the fundamental Kantian premise...
"Last week, someone told me I had offended their religion. No. CNN offended your religion, The New York Times offended your religion...– they said your religion is somehow different."
We shouldn’t consider Islam unequal
"We printed this cartoon because other people weren’t – free speech was coming under fire."
"Both freedom of religion and speech come from the same amendment – they must be blind to each other."
{more, good stuff}....
"If the first amendment is not used, it does run the risk of atrophying."
(applause)
Adam Schmidt - Daily Cardinal
quotes from paper's editorial on why they didn't run cartoon
“Just because you can print something, doesn’t mean you should.”
Personal observations. I respect the right of the BH to run the cartoon.
I respect that the cartoon was a difficult one.
It was quite a diff. decision – I respect that. It was a courageous one.
However, the DC didn’t make the same decision. And it’s not because the =- the ed. Board never discussed printing the cartoon. It’s an issue we didn’t deem necessary to discuss – it’s not an issue important to this issue, or so we though.
There’s more discussion as a result fo the printing as a result.
The larger problem in this debate is …that we can allow people to dominate, that we can allow embassies around the world to be protested and set ablaze because of a cartoon. I disagree with the printing on this campus, I also condemn the reaction around the globe. These are my personal opinions, not the DC’s.
(light clapping)
Dietram S. - Journalism Prof.
As a journalist, I almost feel it’s my duty to defend the decision. I’ve grown up in Germany. I’ve never seen any outrage in Europe to the degree that we’ve seen now.
Because every time there’s a disagreement – we’ll have this discussion. There is no right or wrong to this debate. My religious beliefs are not very storng. I feel very strong about free speech.
The only thing that matters in this debate is the process. We follow rules, we exchange opinions.
“Yes, they should be exposed to criticism – just like any other newspaper should be.”
(Gives the standard Voltaire quote on free speech.)
I’ll leave you with this – and I know it’s an extreme position.
Ovamir Anjum
MSA - Muslim Student Association
Violence over the cartoons is deplorable around the world.
The problem we’ve had…it is not an issue of free speech. It is not the
People are (crowd gives an “um huh”)
Irresponsible use of rights…
"Let us not import Europe’s demons to the U.S."
There’s a vicious cycle of ghettoization and xenophobia…in Europe
The publication of the original cartoon…a right wing cartoon…had also rejected Christina cartoons – sent a message to Muslims in Europe…
After four months, there were peaceful protests…
Muslim American community has been very different from that in Europe – muslims in America have integrated in a much more healthy way.
For this, American multiculturalism and pluralism…
Muslims are great contributors to America – “There is no need to throw a racial slur at them to bring them to the discussion table.”
"These cartoons did not insult one person – by necessity, an entire religious community, already embattled" – this has only caused destructive
Burn our last bridge of fruitful civilizational dialogue
“Issue is not free speech”
Paper’s claim that it was putting forth an idea in the marketplace of ideas is like “I will shoot at somebody, but I’m not responsible and I hope another bullet will come forth and deflect it.”
“The self-righteous attitude of those who republished – it amounts to contempt of an entire community.”
Compared to “free speech in 1930s Germany”
The message we get out of this is –
Wrong not those who wrong you.
(Large applause)
Michael Thomas - Professor
"I’m here in part because I’m a son of the Confederacy."
One of his ancestors fought under Stonewall Jackson.
Tells story of arriving in Madison, seeing a Confederate flag flying on a car.
He is also desendent of slaves, as well
Being afraid is very dangerous, can lead to anger, to hate, to violence.
America is America because of its heritage – part of it is painful, grounded in racism.
It’s about climate – we collecdtively have to construct a climate of mutual understanding.
Lack of understanding gets us into very big problems.
Sacred rights – “generally, in our ordinary parlance, we talk about crossing lines. There’s some examples of lines in free speech. Threats, libel, slander, obscenity, profanity, copyright infringement, harassment, denying historical atrocities, incitement to violence, and hate speech. Why do we have these limit? Because these subtract from the climate that we all want to live in."
“I believe this falls into the category of hate speech.”
“It brings out the worst in us.”
“We enjoy superlative comforts here in America - and we’re building it on the backs of the poor.”
Being inside and outside of a community is a little bit different.
Making ethnic jokes with friends – eventually somebody gets mad. When you’re inside the community, you have a little bit better understanding. “Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle can call people niggers, but Jeff Foxworthy couldn’t – you have a little bit different license.”
“Let us leave here tonight with a genuine resolve to make this negative incident positive…”
“Be not angry” – quoting the Prophet Muhammed.
Alexis Simendinger – visiting journalist of National Journal
Could I see a raise of hands of how many people went on the internet to see the cartoons?
(Most people raise their hands)
Lori Berquam – Question Time
What goes into decision-making of running things in newspapers?
DIETRAM: Editors must ultimately decide what to publish, who to alienate. "A watchdog function of the press – put the information out there and let the people decide."
(Bequam says “and what about the responsibilities?)
DIETRAM: I like a system like this much better than one by committee...
SURI: I just wanted to read something from The Badger Herald. “When we look at that statement – an open marketplace implies an equal playing field. It implies that any idea comes in without baggage." Context denotes
“When you print a picture like this…there will be repercussions?” – (seems like a threat)
“You are subjugating – really – to an Islamophobic environment.”
TEJU: Civility is something you can have your cake and eat it too. Or – actually – for the sake of civility, you can publish it.
“All religions have very little tolerance for this sort of thing.”
OVAMIR: “Freedom of expression is a noble myth.” “Let us not single out religion for its incompatibility with tolerance or pluralism…the most horrendous acts of genocide in this century were committed not in the name of religion, but in the name of ideologies that were rather secular.”
“The ideas of freedom of expression – if you let it run amuck, 51 percent of the people will kill the other 49.”
BERQUAM: Express personally or professionally the impact of this expression its had on you?
TEJU: “This has a greater impact on me – I come from Nigeria.”
“In an open society, there are checks and balances.”
MAC: “The saying that there’s no such thing as truth with a capital “T” - ..."we think it is a repugnant cartoon – we don’t endorse the premise – but it’s newsworthy."
“We just want to give you the story. We believe you are intelligent enough.”
“There are leaders out there who think the truth is perhaps too dangerous for the people.”
“The more I’ve thought on this, the more I’ve come to realize the American media has come to offend Islam – the notion that Islam is somehow unequal.”
(Crowd silent)
DIETRAM: “Complete lack of dialogue.” “A university is the ideal place for exchanging viewpoints.” “This is the one place where you’ll be…”
“I wish I had a mirror up here…you’re all sitting in factions, selectively clapping – you’ve made up your minds about who you’re going to support in advance.”
BERQUAM: Another question…what to do now?
MAC:“This is absolutely what we should’ve done…spurring lots of debate on campus.”
SCHMIDT: “I think it could’ve been done without the publishing of the cartoon here.” “People are talking about this – we didn’t need one paper to publish cartoon to continue this discussion.”
“While I respect the difficulty of the decision – it wasn’t that necessary to further the debate that was already beginning to be debated and will continue to
SIMENDINGER: “You’re doing it – you’re doing exactly what you should be doing.”
“You have an ombudsman?”
“And he sided with your readership?”
MAC: “I believe he made a good faith effort to.”
SIMENDINGER: “Well, I didn’t know if you had one. It’s good that you do.”
[Mac smiles]
OVAMIR of MSA: “I invite each one of us to figure out if this issue is about Prophet Muhammed. Why are people so offended by an insult of this man? What are his teachings? The MSA is trying their best to put that information out. Please go try to figure out these issues on your own.”
BERQUAM: We will now have questions.
{Laughter as tons of people go to the microphones}
Seven people at each microphone at least...
Questioner #1: There have been a lot of message online telling us to go back where we came from - I came from here, I can’t really go anywhere.
OVAMIR of MSA: “There are wars going on that aren’t justified. Violence, unfortunately, is a part of life in underdeveloped societies.”
“It is much more a political issue.”
Questioner #2: Here’s a comment from the BH feedback:
“Muslims are evil and desire to kill all non-Muslims…the Muslim world is nothing but savages.”
“This was the overwhelming actual result – what do you think about that?”
BERQUAM: “I think you’re directing that at Mac…” {laughter}
MAC: “Well, in the marketplace of ideas – [cut off by exaggerated snickering]
“No serious person is going to pay it any attention.”
Questioner #3: Badger Herald printed Campus Truth ad some years ago…our organization told you that Muslims, Arabs, and particularly Palestinians would have trouble with this…
MAC: “A member of your group wrote on our opinion pages…many people felt that
MAC: “Responsible journalism is telling people why 50 people have died around the world – the cartoon may be repugnant, but”
Q3 – “I’m going to sit down, because I don’t think you’re going to answer my question.”
*Mac says he thinks he did answer the question – stays calm.
Questioner #4: “I would like to refer everyone to the ombudsman letter.” “I have not heard any new explanation that merits my support on the other side.”
“Did you look at the cartoons on-line?”
MAC: “We did our best job to sift and winnow through beforehand.” “Bonfire of the Pieties in the Wall Street Journal"…violation of the Muslim religion to merely show the image of the Prophet Mohammed. But they listed the places in the Islamic world where Mohammed is portrayed…there is also a sculpture of him in the U.S. Supreme Court chamber.
Questioner #5: “I care more about human beings than abstract ideas of religions.” “I think many people have pointed out the dehumanization many Muslims have been victim to – I think your newspaper has contributed to that.”
“It’s not about free speech – it’s about consistency.”
“Would you publish cartoon of
BERQUAM: Is there actually a question?
Q5: That is the question.
MAC: “You seem to be wildly misinformed. I would publish it if it had the same newsworthiness as this one….Harvard Salient published cartoons of Jews being ...killed violently..steamroller…I would publish them.”
Questioner #6: “I was absolutely disturbed.” “Muslims around the world are outraged – and they have a right to be.”
{Goes on a tirade about imperialism}
Questioner #7: Goes on rant about War in Iraq – why won’t you publish other side?
{people in back of room shout out that the Herald prints the stuff every day}
MAC: “The Badger Herald can’t afford to send a reporter to Iraq.”
Questioner #8: “Every day down in our torture camps, the Koran is being desecrated…” “I just don’t understand this – I don’t see that this campus has both sides of the issue.”
BERQUAM: So that’s your question???
Q8 – continues tirade about investments board, Palestinians…???
MAC: "You can contact your senator, your representative, the UN..."
Questioner #9: “I called you over the weekend"… said Mac was hypocrite for not getting upset at talk of limiting questioners if they were disrespectful.
{Wild Applause}
MAC: “You said how worthless my life was compared to the honor of somebody…”
{Things get a bit crazy for a moment – people moving around quite a bit…}
Q9: “Well maybe…I didn’t say your life was worthless…you should ask me what I …”
Questioner #10: “I’m not a Muslim…”
OVAMIR:...
Questioner #11: “It’s about more than freedom of speech – the impact it will have on the community. Newsworthiness…if you had a picture of a dead mutilated picture of a person in Iraq, even if mother begged you not to print it, would you print it?”
MAC: “I will trade you my apple for your orange. It’s completely different.”
Q11: I would disagree.
MAC: “We didn’t print it because we agreed with the ideology it expresses…”
Questioner #12: “You said this brings out the worst of us, but I think it brings out the best in us.” “Don’t you think a free dialogue is best?” “I’m Catholic, person I came with is Jewish.” “The misunderstanding of the Muslim faith is part of the reason we went into Iraq?” “Don’t you think a free flow of ideas is a good thing?”
Questioner #13: Chris Dols – “What do you think of this? To say that the riots are about the cartoon. The riots were not just about the cartoons – it’s dishonest to run half the story.”
BERQUAM: Chris, your question?
Q13: “Never have I seen your paper portray Muslims for what it is – a harassed minority.”
MAC: “Well, you asked …
Q13: “Bullshit!”
BERQUAM: Chris, your question please…
Q13: “Why didn’t you print my article?”
MAC: “Chris…”
Q13: {basically starts grandstanding and going wild}
{Applause.}
Questioner #14: “What about CARE’s position?”
Questioner #15: “Basically, Muslims asked why did you print the pictures?” “The response that was came was ‘Because we can?’” “Why did you run it?” “When can we expect an apology?”
{Clapping}
MAC: “I’ll take your questions in reverse order. I appreciate your comment, but we won’t be giving an apology. I stand behind our decision.”
SCHMIDT of the DC: “Although we disagreed on the printing, I, at least personally, don’t see why an apology would be needed.”
BERQUAM: It’s 8:45 – I’m going to close to the forum.
{Applause}
~Fine~
|
It is one massive post, and I've left it raw and unedited, except for a few pictures I've sprinkled in as appropriate and a few hyperlinks peppered here and there.
Only areas in quotes are verbatim from my seat in the hall. Spelling errors have not been amended!
Enjoy.
___________________________________________________________
7:00 – Chancellor Wiley and Laurie Berquam are standing below the stage surveying the crowd.
Mac from the Badger Herald is in the center of the table on stage, flanked by Adam Schmidt of the Daily Cardinal and the rep. from the Muslim Student Association.
There are lots of empty seats here in 272 Bascom.
There are 9 panelists up front.
Jeff Healy of The Mendota Beacon is here to cover the story.
I'm sitting with Opiate, J.E., and the Herald contingent.
(It’s sort of like church – there’s nobody sitting up front.)
Panelists are laughing, chit-chatting.
7:03 Wiley starts things off. He notes that more people will be coming in during the forum – don’t get excited, basically, there will probably be protesters
“one of the central issues in any democracy”
“one of our most important freedoms – freedom of speech and freedom of press”
“I can promise you this – you’ll take away from this evening memories and experiences you can’t get in an ordinary classroom (this is what a university is all about –real issues that are on us in the moment”
7:05 – Berquam takes the mic
The purpose is in response to the controversy
“portraying the prophet mohammed as a terrorist figure” – set context already
“respectful, intelligent dialogue”
“there exists a wide range of opinions on this topic”
“a contribution to the fearless sifting and winnowing”
Mac, Michael Thomas, White House Correspondent for the National Journal… Suri Kempe – Multicultural Student Coalition (I thought the rep was supposed to be Babar from the MSA?) OVAMIR is actually the rep. for the Muslim Students Association.. There are more I can't get right away...
7:10 Opening Statements
Kemal Karpat – a muslim, but not speaking as a muslim – professor emeritus who taught here for 36 years
There are certain sublime global rights and freedoms – freedom of speech, freedom of thought. There use in a responsible manner is to be applauded. Their abuse should be criticized – such freedoms can be abused when people have the means to use them to express their own personal preferences. Here is the danger of freedom – when it is in the hands of people who are not sufficiently informed of the world they are living in…when ideas are traveling from one end of the world to the other. Those ideas are affecting the Muslim world…
(Goes off on an anti-colonial rant.)
But Europe is not prepared to share with them the freedoms, the equality they’ve been preaching. Some of the demonstrations in Europe are demonstartaions against inequality that has been perpetrated.
Before publishing something, before saying someihtng, I believe one should look inot the background of those events w/o preaching high ideals that are not being respected by the people preaching.
“a condemnation of that [Muslim] world wihtou understanding that world, without finding ways to…"
(clapping violently)
They should be free to write what they want, but also free to accept the repercussions
Teju Olaniyan- political cartoons expert
A much larger philosophical issue…"the fundamental fact that there will never be a comfortable meeting place between religion and free speech"…we just have to understand the fact that there will never be a comfortable meeting between religion and free speech.
Second point… “the arguments are eloquently made…given the eloquent argument…I thought there would be…what we should be struggling for is not our sacred rights, but the sacred images…”
Each time I here that the cartoons are offensive – they are very offensive to me – the cartoons are very, very offensive – of course, they are cartoons, what do you expect?
“The cartoons are incredibly successful – more successful than the artists ever would have liked.”
“Cartoons are supposed to be offensive and we just have to accept it that way.”
Suri Kempe – MCSC
Multicultural Student Coalition
When one says the issue is about protecting free speech – the right to protect what one believes in – what is the point of publishing something you don’t believe in?
What is the cartoon saying? It is saying the religion he preaches is a religion of terror.
By repritng this picture – the Badger Herald as an institution is saying that “it says all Muslims are terrorists…”
Given the hurt as well as the grievance – could this objective have been achieved in some other way?
“An increasingly Islamophobic environment”
Newspapers in particular play an important role – the picture which the Badger Herald published “possibly putting in danger people in the community”
(Clapping)
A Muslim student looking for signatures…was spit on,
Printing this image is harassment of Muslims on and off this campus…
"How can you ensure the safety of every Muslim in our community that you put at risk?"
Mac VerStandig - The Badger Herald
This is what I believe in…a room full of people
I believe a newspaper, when psosibl, should give people the information necessary to make decisions.
"We have a duty to our readers to provide them with all the facts."
“I believe in the fundamental Kantian premise...
"Last week, someone told me I had offended their religion. No. CNN offended your religion, The New York Times offended your religion...– they said your religion is somehow different."
We shouldn’t consider Islam unequal
"We printed this cartoon because other people weren’t – free speech was coming under fire."
"Both freedom of religion and speech come from the same amendment – they must be blind to each other."
{more, good stuff}....
"If the first amendment is not used, it does run the risk of atrophying."
(applause)
Adam Schmidt - Daily Cardinal
quotes from paper's editorial on why they didn't run cartoon
“Just because you can print something, doesn’t mean you should.”
Personal observations. I respect the right of the BH to run the cartoon.
I respect that the cartoon was a difficult one.
It was quite a diff. decision – I respect that. It was a courageous one.
However, the DC didn’t make the same decision. And it’s not because the =- the ed. Board never discussed printing the cartoon. It’s an issue we didn’t deem necessary to discuss – it’s not an issue important to this issue, or so we though.
There’s more discussion as a result fo the printing as a result.
The larger problem in this debate is …that we can allow people to dominate, that we can allow embassies around the world to be protested and set ablaze because of a cartoon. I disagree with the printing on this campus, I also condemn the reaction around the globe. These are my personal opinions, not the DC’s.
(light clapping)
Dietram S. - Journalism Prof.
As a journalist, I almost feel it’s my duty to defend the decision. I’ve grown up in Germany. I’ve never seen any outrage in Europe to the degree that we’ve seen now.
Because every time there’s a disagreement – we’ll have this discussion. There is no right or wrong to this debate. My religious beliefs are not very storng. I feel very strong about free speech.
The only thing that matters in this debate is the process. We follow rules, we exchange opinions.
“Yes, they should be exposed to criticism – just like any other newspaper should be.”
(Gives the standard Voltaire quote on free speech.)
I’ll leave you with this – and I know it’s an extreme position.
Ovamir Anjum
MSA - Muslim Student Association
Violence over the cartoons is deplorable around the world.
The problem we’ve had…it is not an issue of free speech. It is not the
People are (crowd gives an “um huh”)
Irresponsible use of rights…
"Let us not import Europe’s demons to the U.S."
There’s a vicious cycle of ghettoization and xenophobia…in Europe
The publication of the original cartoon…a right wing cartoon…had also rejected Christina cartoons – sent a message to Muslims in Europe…
After four months, there were peaceful protests…
Muslim American community has been very different from that in Europe – muslims in America have integrated in a much more healthy way.
For this, American multiculturalism and pluralism…
Muslims are great contributors to America – “There is no need to throw a racial slur at them to bring them to the discussion table.”
"These cartoons did not insult one person – by necessity, an entire religious community, already embattled" – this has only caused destructive
Burn our last bridge of fruitful civilizational dialogue
“Issue is not free speech”
Paper’s claim that it was putting forth an idea in the marketplace of ideas is like “I will shoot at somebody, but I’m not responsible and I hope another bullet will come forth and deflect it.”
“The self-righteous attitude of those who republished – it amounts to contempt of an entire community.”
Compared to “free speech in 1930s Germany”
The message we get out of this is –
Wrong not those who wrong you.
(Large applause)
Michael Thomas - Professor
"I’m here in part because I’m a son of the Confederacy."
One of his ancestors fought under Stonewall Jackson.
Tells story of arriving in Madison, seeing a Confederate flag flying on a car.
He is also desendent of slaves, as well
Being afraid is very dangerous, can lead to anger, to hate, to violence.
America is America because of its heritage – part of it is painful, grounded in racism.
It’s about climate – we collecdtively have to construct a climate of mutual understanding.
Lack of understanding gets us into very big problems.
Sacred rights – “generally, in our ordinary parlance, we talk about crossing lines. There’s some examples of lines in free speech. Threats, libel, slander, obscenity, profanity, copyright infringement, harassment, denying historical atrocities, incitement to violence, and hate speech. Why do we have these limit? Because these subtract from the climate that we all want to live in."
“I believe this falls into the category of hate speech.”
“It brings out the worst in us.”
“We enjoy superlative comforts here in America - and we’re building it on the backs of the poor.”
Being inside and outside of a community is a little bit different.
Making ethnic jokes with friends – eventually somebody gets mad. When you’re inside the community, you have a little bit better understanding. “Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle can call people niggers, but Jeff Foxworthy couldn’t – you have a little bit different license.”
“Let us leave here tonight with a genuine resolve to make this negative incident positive…”
“Be not angry” – quoting the Prophet Muhammed.
Alexis Simendinger – visiting journalist of National Journal
Could I see a raise of hands of how many people went on the internet to see the cartoons?
(Most people raise their hands)
Lori Berquam – Question Time
What goes into decision-making of running things in newspapers?
DIETRAM: Editors must ultimately decide what to publish, who to alienate. "A watchdog function of the press – put the information out there and let the people decide."
(Bequam says “and what about the responsibilities?)
DIETRAM: I like a system like this much better than one by committee...
SURI: I just wanted to read something from The Badger Herald. “When we look at that statement – an open marketplace implies an equal playing field. It implies that any idea comes in without baggage." Context denotes
“When you print a picture like this…there will be repercussions?” – (seems like a threat)
“You are subjugating – really – to an Islamophobic environment.”
TEJU: Civility is something you can have your cake and eat it too. Or – actually – for the sake of civility, you can publish it.
“All religions have very little tolerance for this sort of thing.”
OVAMIR: “Freedom of expression is a noble myth.” “Let us not single out religion for its incompatibility with tolerance or pluralism…the most horrendous acts of genocide in this century were committed not in the name of religion, but in the name of ideologies that were rather secular.”
“The ideas of freedom of expression – if you let it run amuck, 51 percent of the people will kill the other 49.”
BERQUAM: Express personally or professionally the impact of this expression its had on you?
TEJU: “This has a greater impact on me – I come from Nigeria.”
“In an open society, there are checks and balances.”
MAC: “The saying that there’s no such thing as truth with a capital “T” - ..."we think it is a repugnant cartoon – we don’t endorse the premise – but it’s newsworthy."
“We just want to give you the story. We believe you are intelligent enough.”
“There are leaders out there who think the truth is perhaps too dangerous for the people.”
“The more I’ve thought on this, the more I’ve come to realize the American media has come to offend Islam – the notion that Islam is somehow unequal.”
(Crowd silent)
DIETRAM: “Complete lack of dialogue.” “A university is the ideal place for exchanging viewpoints.” “This is the one place where you’ll be…”
“I wish I had a mirror up here…you’re all sitting in factions, selectively clapping – you’ve made up your minds about who you’re going to support in advance.”
BERQUAM: Another question…what to do now?
MAC:“This is absolutely what we should’ve done…spurring lots of debate on campus.”
SCHMIDT: “I think it could’ve been done without the publishing of the cartoon here.” “People are talking about this – we didn’t need one paper to publish cartoon to continue this discussion.”
“While I respect the difficulty of the decision – it wasn’t that necessary to further the debate that was already beginning to be debated and will continue to
SIMENDINGER: “You’re doing it – you’re doing exactly what you should be doing.”
“You have an ombudsman?”
“And he sided with your readership?”
MAC: “I believe he made a good faith effort to.”
SIMENDINGER: “Well, I didn’t know if you had one. It’s good that you do.”
[Mac smiles]
OVAMIR of MSA: “I invite each one of us to figure out if this issue is about Prophet Muhammed. Why are people so offended by an insult of this man? What are his teachings? The MSA is trying their best to put that information out. Please go try to figure out these issues on your own.”
BERQUAM: We will now have questions.
{Laughter as tons of people go to the microphones}
Seven people at each microphone at least...
Questioner #1: There have been a lot of message online telling us to go back where we came from - I came from here, I can’t really go anywhere.
OVAMIR of MSA: “There are wars going on that aren’t justified. Violence, unfortunately, is a part of life in underdeveloped societies.”
“It is much more a political issue.”
Questioner #2: Here’s a comment from the BH feedback:
“Muslims are evil and desire to kill all non-Muslims…the Muslim world is nothing but savages.”
“This was the overwhelming actual result – what do you think about that?”
BERQUAM: “I think you’re directing that at Mac…” {laughter}
MAC: “Well, in the marketplace of ideas – [cut off by exaggerated snickering]
“No serious person is going to pay it any attention.”
Questioner #3: Badger Herald printed Campus Truth ad some years ago…our organization told you that Muslims, Arabs, and particularly Palestinians would have trouble with this…
MAC: “A member of your group wrote on our opinion pages…many people felt that
MAC: “Responsible journalism is telling people why 50 people have died around the world – the cartoon may be repugnant, but”
Q3 – “I’m going to sit down, because I don’t think you’re going to answer my question.”
*Mac says he thinks he did answer the question – stays calm.
Questioner #4: “I would like to refer everyone to the ombudsman letter.” “I have not heard any new explanation that merits my support on the other side.”
“Did you look at the cartoons on-line?”
MAC: “We did our best job to sift and winnow through beforehand.” “Bonfire of the Pieties in the Wall Street Journal"…violation of the Muslim religion to merely show the image of the Prophet Mohammed. But they listed the places in the Islamic world where Mohammed is portrayed…there is also a sculpture of him in the U.S. Supreme Court chamber.
Questioner #5: “I care more about human beings than abstract ideas of religions.” “I think many people have pointed out the dehumanization many Muslims have been victim to – I think your newspaper has contributed to that.”
“It’s not about free speech – it’s about consistency.”
“Would you publish cartoon of
BERQUAM: Is there actually a question?
Q5: That is the question.
MAC: “You seem to be wildly misinformed. I would publish it if it had the same newsworthiness as this one….Harvard Salient published cartoons of Jews being ...killed violently..steamroller…I would publish them.”
Questioner #6: “I was absolutely disturbed.” “Muslims around the world are outraged – and they have a right to be.”
{Goes on a tirade about imperialism}
Questioner #7: Goes on rant about War in Iraq – why won’t you publish other side?
{people in back of room shout out that the Herald prints the stuff every day}
MAC: “The Badger Herald can’t afford to send a reporter to Iraq.”
Questioner #8: “Every day down in our torture camps, the Koran is being desecrated…” “I just don’t understand this – I don’t see that this campus has both sides of the issue.”
BERQUAM: So that’s your question???
Q8 – continues tirade about investments board, Palestinians…???
MAC: "You can contact your senator, your representative, the UN..."
Questioner #9: “I called you over the weekend"… said Mac was hypocrite for not getting upset at talk of limiting questioners if they were disrespectful.
{Wild Applause}
MAC: “You said how worthless my life was compared to the honor of somebody…”
{Things get a bit crazy for a moment – people moving around quite a bit…}
Q9: “Well maybe…I didn’t say your life was worthless…you should ask me what I …”
Questioner #10: “I’m not a Muslim…”
OVAMIR:...
Questioner #11: “It’s about more than freedom of speech – the impact it will have on the community. Newsworthiness…if you had a picture of a dead mutilated picture of a person in Iraq, even if mother begged you not to print it, would you print it?”
MAC: “I will trade you my apple for your orange. It’s completely different.”
Q11: I would disagree.
MAC: “We didn’t print it because we agreed with the ideology it expresses…”
Questioner #12: “You said this brings out the worst of us, but I think it brings out the best in us.” “Don’t you think a free dialogue is best?” “I’m Catholic, person I came with is Jewish.” “The misunderstanding of the Muslim faith is part of the reason we went into Iraq?” “Don’t you think a free flow of ideas is a good thing?”
Questioner #13: Chris Dols – “What do you think of this? To say that the riots are about the cartoon. The riots were not just about the cartoons – it’s dishonest to run half the story.”
BERQUAM: Chris, your question?
Q13: “Never have I seen your paper portray Muslims for what it is – a harassed minority.”
MAC: “Well, you asked …
Q13: “Bullshit!”
BERQUAM: Chris, your question please…
Q13: “Why didn’t you print my article?”
MAC: “Chris…”
Q13: {basically starts grandstanding and going wild}
{Applause.}
Questioner #14: “What about CARE’s position?”
Questioner #15: “Basically, Muslims asked why did you print the pictures?” “The response that was came was ‘Because we can?’” “Why did you run it?” “When can we expect an apology?”
{Clapping}
MAC: “I’ll take your questions in reverse order. I appreciate your comment, but we won’t be giving an apology. I stand behind our decision.”
SCHMIDT of the DC: “Although we disagreed on the printing, I, at least personally, don’t see why an apology would be needed.”
BERQUAM: It’s 8:45 – I’m going to close to the forum.
{Applause}
~Fine~
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posted by Brad V at 10:14 PM
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